Inconsistencies in the Liberal Articles of Faith
Wednesday, January 31st, 2007I had a hell of a good time yesterday on Feministing.com discussing human rights and cultural relativism with these wonderful
women. Vanessa posted a story about two Chinese men from a western province in China who were arrested for murder. They had bought the retarded daughter of a poor family who’d hoped selling her could only give her a better life than they could. Not so much. The new “owners” learned the girl was worth more dead than alive if her corpse could be sold another couple who believed they needed to bury a corpse bride with their deceased son so he could have a wife in the afterlife. After making the sale, they tried it again on a prostitute. Original story here.
Of course, all this was an outrage for these one-track minds.
“…seriously creepy shit. It’s terrifying when a patriarchal tradition not only extends into the afterlife, but when women are slaughtered in order to respect it.” -Vanessa
The elightened, progressive, liberal, open-minded commenters:
“What the f*** is wrong with people?” -Manda
“Insane…” -Sam Cai
“these are the times where i am grateful to live in the united states. we have some messed up stuff, but none of it includes burqas, foot binding, marrying dead men and throwing yourself on your husbands burning body.” -Katie
That is where I jumped in. I noticed they had forgotten they weren’t talking about white American men in spewing the vitriol. Katie (soon to backpeddle) had even stepped off the “blame-America-first” reservation. I wanted to know how long that would last. I posted:
I’m with Katie on this. I’m glad I live in a superior culture that doesn’t tolerate things like the opression of women.
That threw them for a loop. They’d been rattled. Shook up. Dazed. They went first for the liberals first weapon of choice. Calling me racist. This is the liberals’ first weapon of choice because they believe it requires no ammunition.
Eric - You are being sarcastic, right?
A superior culture? Wow, that’s a pretty racist thing to assert. -Anorak
Notice they asked me if I was being sarcastic, but they didn’t flinch at Katie’s or the earlier remarks. I wish I hadn’t jumped in until later so I could have seen how much longer they would have gone on bashing (rightfully so) the practices, beliefs, and customs involved in this story.
But I called it a culture, and that’s where the contradiction appears in the liberal articles of faith. You can’t say a culture (set of beliefs and customs of a group) is worse than your’s if you’re American. But oppression of women can’t be tolerated and no words are strong enough in criticizing those who would.
This looked like a job for moral equivelancy:
Besides, even if women aren’t as oppressed in the United States, the government still tolerates oppression of women in other countries and even does things that make it worse. Iraq and Afghanistan, anyone? -prairielily
prairielily, you are totally right, the status of women throughout the world is certainly part of my feminist agenda.
It is problematic for me, however, as a caucasian woman from a developed [1st world] country to know how to support women who live in oppressive countries without reinacting cultural imperialism…
And, yeah, I wanna third the “what the f*** is wrong with people?”
This sucks. -anorak
Huh? What Anorak means is “How can I call these people nasty and backwards while still maintaining the moral high ground of being a culural relativist.?”
I came back with:
Racist? Towards which race?
My position is very simple.
A culture that sells people, that arranges marriages for its daughters, that forces women to dress a certain way, denies them education and freedom over their own lives, and the right to be involved in the political process, etc., and so forth - a culture like that is inferior to a culture that won’t tolerate those things.
We have our problems here - not saying we’re perfect, but I’m happy to know that the women I know will never be sold only to be murdered and buried as part of some primitive mysticism, or have their fingers cut off for polishing their nails, etc.
I don’t see how my position is any different from Vanessa’s in the original post or Katie’s comment. Maybe I’m just too blunt?
I thought that should simplify things nicely for them. But they wouldn’t bite. Just more moral relativism - beginning with katie’s backpeddling from her original remarks. No matter how hard they tried to say “we’re just as bad” it didn’t work:
i dont think our culture is superior, bc i am sure we are inferior in other ways comparatively to china or whereever, i am just glad we dont have those customs here, even though we have our fair of problems. and yes, we allow oppression like this to occur in other countries with no problem, although i will be the first person to say you have to take care of your own first, and we have a LONG way to go with that. - Katie
There are equally misogynist crimes against women committed here in the US, for different rationales. Think about how often you read about some “distraught” man who shoots his wife and children. -EG
Eric, it is racist to contend that a culture is “superior” to another one.
Certainly, there are practises in different countries and cultures that my ethical code forbids, but this doesn’t make my culture “superior”.
I have a feeling this is not an argument I will be able to persuade you of.
Let’s just point out for argument’s sake, though, that your culture - if you are from the United States - has genocide, slavery, segregation, illegal invasions of foreign states, the death penalty, laws oppressive to women and other practises in its history and present state, practises that my ethical code opposes, and I don’t feel it is inferior to mine.
It is possible to ahbor rape and murder and injustice wherever they are found, without having to believe they make the culture they are found in “inferior”. -Anorak
The moral equivelancy is deafening eh? I told them, and I’ll say it again here. “Feminists here measure the “plight of women” by how long it might take to get a morning after pill, where problems in other parts of the world are measured in how long before the execution if a woman caught doing something she’d be perfectly within her rights to do here.”
To be fair, I should add that some of them actually got it. One of two of them defended my position. Maybe they’re what Tammy Bruce would call a “classic liberal.”
